At the very core of Armstrongism is a dependency on 2 specific doctrines: British Israelism and annual Holy Days. So it is not surprising when "old guard" champion, Lambert Greer, addresses both at the Feast of Tabernacles. This is an email excerpt describing Greer's sermon about the annual holy days:
"Had a bizarre sermon from Lambert Greer at the feast. He started out by asking if any of us ever identify ourselves or allow ourselves to be identified by others as "Jewish Christians?" He then showed how Christ attacked the pharisees for upholding traditions of the elders and commandments of men above or in place of the law of God. He said we are not Jewish Christians and we should not look to Judaism to draw closer to God.
So far--so good. I thought this was going to be his topic. I thought this was going to be an attack on the Hebrew Roots Movement garnering way more attention around the world than all the COGs combined. Instead, he did a 180 and went after mainstream Christianity on its reliance on Christ as being the fulfillment of the law and his main point was to show that the annual Holy Days were kept by New Covenant Christians and all you need to prove it is Paul's letters to the Corinthians. He starts with an odd assumption with zero proof that HWA taught and observed annual HD the same way Paul did.
As he went through verses in Corinthians, he would say things like keeping the annual HD is why we understand what Paul "really means" or implies without saying it plainly. He said Paul didn't need to explain them because his audience was already in the know. I thought well that sure doesn't do much for people 2,000 years later trying to figure out Paul. He said several times that those who keep them are "IN" and those who don't are "OUT."
Twice, he asked if you will ever hear, "saints will judge the world" and I Corinthians 15:22 discussed in a Baptist church? I thought what good are questions like that to ask of people who either grew up in COGs at this point or are so far removed from ever hearing any Baptist preaching even if they were in the Baptist church growing up? Greer himself grew up in the Catholic church! Since when is he up on what Baptists say week in and week out in their services or anyone else at the feast that chuckled at the comment? I wanted to raise my hand and tell everyone I heard the best sermon ever on I Corinthians 15 not more than 6 weeks ago listening to Chuck Swindall on the radio on a Sunday morning while I worked.
Toward the end, he said as you can see now, HD observance is seen plainly just in the Corinthian letters. I thought not only is it not plain but neither is it seen plainly anywhere in the N.T. The truth is those Corinthian verses are his best argument and they are not plain and strong proofs.
The take home message appeared strongly to be this: He was replacing the traditional Armstrong teaching of the weekly Sabbath as the sign between God and His people with the annual Holy Days. He said if you keep them, you are IN and if you don't, you are OUT! I wonder if that has been sanctioned by Weston, Ames and Winnail?"
Annual Holy Day observance as any kind of "test command" falls flat in the same way as the weekly Sabbath does from Armstrong's own Church history narrative. Hoeh falsified "sabbath-keepers" in history to mean Saturday-keepers when it is easily proven that those who used the term were Sunday-observers. There is no historical chain of Saturday-keepers living up to a "test command" that shows they are the only real and true Christians in 2,000 years. How much more true is it concerning annual Sabbath-observation down through history?
If you ask Weston if annual Holy Days are required for salvation, he says, "I don't know." And he must. I would ask him the same way Christ posed the question about John the Baptist:
Mr. Weston. The annual Holy Days. Are they from God or Herb? If you say Herb, then you admit that observing them is a "tradition of the elders" (Herb) and not important to salvation. But if you say God, you cannot provide the evidence of that either from the Bible itself or from the historical record.
This doesn't seem to matter to the LCG WAW trinity (Weston, Ames, Winnail). They have noticeably tripled down on annual holy day importance in sermons and writings in the last year or two. So much so, it is creating a back-lash and now members are questioning their importance. It is a narrative set on annual repeat. As much as 1/3 of all sermons in a given year are about the annual holy days.
Perhaps, this is a jealous attempt to funnel interest away from Hebrew Roots seekers. If so, it will fail because top-down hierarchical Roman Catholic church governance in the COGs is anathema to free thinkers who study the Bible and don't find their way into churches based on fear tactics in this Information Age. I know this from personal experience. A Baptist family studying with Hebrew Roots folks are observing annual holy days their own way. They did not learn it from any COGs and after visiting COGWA, they were instantly turned off by the church government. I told my Baptist friends they would find LCG even less appealing.
Some of the ministers will admit unashamedly that they are giving the same sermons on the annual holy days over and over, year after year. The shear inability to "grow in grace and knowledge" in LCG is beyond mind-numbing. Nothing is ever questioned, revisited or even repackaged in a fresh new interesting way. Herb set everything in stone for us all decades ago.
In my own personal examination of what Jesus had to say, the only case that I see that can be made for a possible "test command" is John 13:34-35
"A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."
V
The Sabbath as a "test command" was solely for Israel. But we must be careful in dissecting Armstrongism to not fall into the two ditches.
ReplyDeleteOne ditch rejects everything Armstrong, the other ditch worships everything Armstrong.
The Feast days are not Armstrong. They are God's and they most certainly picture God's plan of salvation for mankind.
Just as God made Israel dwell in tents while he brought them out of Egypt. He too is making us, mankind, dwell in fleshly tabernacles while he brings us out of sin. Is there a scripture backing up this statement? No. But God has given us the ability to use logic and common sense along with His Holy Spirit to understand these things.
Are annual Holy Days required for salvation? Is not murdering required for salvation?
We need to learn to ask the right questions. God commands us not to murder, but many repentant murderers will be in the first resurrection.
The only thing required for salvation is repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.
Kevin McMillen aka km
I originally had high hopes for this site but now I'm wondering if it's just turning into another bitch session.
ReplyDeleteTime will tell...
V, You make "matter of fact" statements as if you know. Statements like: "There is no historical chain of Saturday-keepers..." , really? How do you know? While there's certainly not an organizational "chain", you don:t know if a chain exists or not. Meaning the Sabbath being taught from one generation to another. Do you even know about the True Jesus church in China? They have a membership of around a million. We learned of the Sabbatniks from Russia after the Berlin wall came down. I would never defend Herman Hoeh's research but how do you know that Sabbath keepers in historical records were just meaning Sunday?
ReplyDeleteYou do understand that's it's impossible to know the exact context of all writings from 1700 years ago. When the said "first of the sabbaths" which is always translated as first day of the week by translators, how do you know they weren't meaning the first day counting to Pentecost and not really meaning Sunday?
Bart Ehrman and other historians make so many assumptions it's not funny. They have an agenda. Don't fall for their b.s.
Also, it is perfectly clear from 1 Cor. 5 that gentiles were keeping the feasts. Why else would Paul even speak to gentiles about "keep"ing the feast or referencing unleavened bread?
ReplyDeleteCol. 2:16,17, at least to me proves that gentiles were keeping the Sabbath and feasts. Why? Who was it that were judging the Colossians on eating, drinking, and keeping Sabbaths and new moons?
From earlier verses we note that the Colossians were uncircumcised. No Jew worth his salt would demand an uncircumcised man keep the Sabbath or feasts. This is why the Judaizers of Acts 15 were demanding circumcision first and then law keeping. To a Jew the Sabbath and feasts were solely for them and/or anyone who joined them via circumcision.
This imo is the key to Colossians, who was doing the judging of the gentile Colossians and were they being judged for not keeping the Sabbaths or were they being judged because they were keeping the Sabbaths while uncircumcised?
Jews would never judge an uncircumcised gentile for not keeping the Sabbaths. That's just common sense. Also, why would other gentiles judge for not keeping the "Jewish" Sabbaths?
It only makes sense that the Colossians were being judged because they WERE indeed keeping the Sabbaths while still being uncircumcised. Other gentiles were judging them for keeping "Jewish" days, and Jews were judging them for not being circumcised and for not obeying all the rules of the written and oral law.
So yes, it is crystal clear for anyone discerning enough that Paul's writings to gentiles prove they were keeping the Sabbath and feasts.
Kevin McMillen
https://forward.com/news/201843/jewish-no-we-re-subbotniks-welcome-to-our-synag/
ReplyDeletehttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Jesus_Church
ReplyDeleteIs the Last Great day, the day that Jesus promised living water to all who thirst, the seventh day of Tabernacles or the eighth day as we've been historically been taught?
ReplyDeleteWe've been taught that the millennium is the main meaning of tabernacles, but is that true? While that may be one of the symbols of the seven day feast, is not the actual living in temporary dwellings while God brings mankind out of sin the main symbology?
I realize it's difficult to let loose of old paradigms and take hold of new ones, but isn't that the meaning of growing in grace and knowledge?
Why seven days in tabernacles and not eight? Could it be that the seven days pictures the 7,000 years that God is dealing with mankind in the flesh?
Why no tabernacle on the eighth day if that day pictures the resurrection of the vast majority of mankind back in to physical bodies?
Couldn't the seventh day, the historic Jewish water ceremony, be the Great day when Jesus cried out and promised living water to all? Why can't the seventh day picture the millennium and the GWTJ? Since there is no dwelling in tabernacles on the eighth day, wouldn't that picture eternity when God's plan has been accomplished?
Just as Passover pictures Jesus being slain from before the foundation of the world, and then seven days/seven thousand years of God bringing mankind out of sin. Tabernacles pictures seven thousand years of mankind in temporary flesh while God brings us out of sin.
With the Eighth day picturing the fulfillment of God's plan. The Passover picturing eternity past when Christ was slain before the foundation of the world, and the Eighth day picturing eternity future, like bookends enveloping the entire plan of God.
That is all very interesting. I remember an article written by Hoeh about Sabbath-keepers in China in the 1800's and how they were involved in the Boxer Rebellion. It wouldn't surprise me if the TJC was a variation/continuation of that. I did not mean to imply that there is no historical record of Sabbath-keepers, only that the WCG church narrative failed to prove it in attempt to specifically tie themselves to specific churches in the new world. And I don't want anyone to think that I find no value in our understanding of annual holy days or even how we observe them. But what I do believe is that there is not enough to go on that would allow me to equate them in importance with the weekly sabbath. Nor is there enough evidence Biblically and historically to even decide how those days are to be observed. COG7D was wise in avoiding them as doctrine. That does not mean that the doctrines embodied in those annual days are not already understood and even taught in many churches. The annual holy days are "packaging" and HWA packaged the doctrines in those days in the way "he" decided. There is actually nothing wrong with that even as long as you don't equate his packaging as Biblical when it is simply a "tradition of an elder" (HWA). Let alone going as far as to say that if you observe these days (meaning the way Greer demands and with LCG) you are IN and if you do not, you are OUT. I hope I clarified my opinion better and I want to remind you it is only my opinion. And yes, I do understand the things you asked me about.
ReplyDeletePersonally I think Ez. 20 says it all in regards to the feast days. Sabbaths refers to them all, weekly and annual. God gave Israel His Sabbaths that they might know that he is the God who sanctified them. Why wouldn't he do the same for us? They are His days, not Israels. Can one be saved without ever keeping the weekly Sabbath or annual Sabbaths? Hell yes! Can one who has been shown the importance of obeying God's Sabbaths, yet refuses to keep them for whatever reason be saved? I'm glad that only the one who knows men's hearts knows that answer. I for one would be scared to take that chance since it's because of disobedience that Jesus had to come and die in the first place. It's not my job to spell out disobedience for others, but for me to not keep the feast days would definitely be disobedience on my part. The feasts aren't traditions of men, though as I've pointed out before, some of the ways we've been told that we have to keep them are. Like going to Orange Beach because "God placed his name there" or going to services every day.
ReplyDeleteKevin McMillen